SU Communities

First of all I want everyone to know how appalled I was by the lets bash OOM YUNG DOE.  I know different then the author that is for sure. Oom Yung Doe is eight different arts taught as one and is very interesting.

I have a daughter who has been doing Oom Yung Doe for the past year and she absolutely loves it, feels it was not money wasted, which by the way was not even a fraction of what the previous author said. My daughter has benefited in many ways, her attitude is so improved not to mention her body. 

The schools of Oom Yung Doe are spread out through the country and there are a few in Seattle.  They have a good reputation and have helped many people.  As with all martial arts it takes alot of work and dedication.If you look up any martial arts styles you will read good and bad, and as for The school on Madison closing down, it DID NOT close down it re-located as their lease was up and they wanted more room as they are growing. Check your facts please.  The author also stated that when he would walk by the school on Madison that he would see the Instructor (not head of the school) sitting behind his desk rully robed.  Yes, he would be before and after a class as he wears those clothes when teaching.  And yes they were standing in the doorway to his office and yes they could go inside and sit.  And I do believe they waited to be invited in only because that is called RESPECT. If you had ever went into the school you also would have seen his office was the size of a postage stamp.  Any martial art requires respect, that is one of the many things they try to teach.

The author of the article needs to talk to students who have been taking oom yung doe and he will see, they are male and female of all ages, so i guess bone crushing wouldn't be the correct word to use. Sit in on a class, talk to the instructor, don't be mis-led by someone who sounds as if they have a bone to pick with someone. 

I was also a student of Oom Yung Doe. The fact is that the figure head of the school DID serve 5 years for tax fraud estimated at over 2 million dollars. The practice was widespread in a system that repoted payments as $1 for each $100 collected.

That was 1995. The convicted felons included John C Kim, Robert Sawinsky, Mike McKay and others STILL RUNNING THESE SCHOOLS as the "Grandmaster" (a term that needs a second thread to fully unveil this deceit) and as "national" instructors.

As if this serious fact, which should not be so easily rationalized away or glossed over, were not enough- the claims of teaching 8 martial arts, and the credentials of the leader are bogus.

This post is an invitation to logical debate and discussion of these points. Evidence can and will be provided as needed for the facts presented here.

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Reason and Intuition inform each other

It is hard to find what you refer to as having "a bone to pick with someone". The tone of the author seems quite objective, and based on a desire to inform while openly asking for responses and fact checking, to which he has been quite gracious and balanced in offering.

Regarding fact checking, what fact checking have you done on the claim to teach eight martial arts as one. Has your daughter learned eight martial arts as one? Respectfully, I must offer a dissenting opinion here. In order to teach eight martial arts, one must be qualified in them.

While the school figurehead and head instructors within the organization were in jail in 1996, "John C Kim was bestowed the title "Grandmaster" Iron Kim of eight martial arts". In other words, the biography posted on the website is grossly fraudulent.

Apart from this obvious discrepency of facts there is the severe character flaw of actions that led to the 5 year sentence itself. If the "grandmaster" were a balanced and highly advanced martial arts practitioner, he would follow the principles you spoke of. Honesty, integrity, hard work, concern for others. Being convicted of tax fraud to the tune of over 2 million dollars (whick means the actual skimmed income was 3 times that) should send up a small red flag.

Lastly, out of concern for your daughter, you should thank the poster, not scold them, and take a step back to gain perspective. Sometimes good intentions lead to disasterous results when you are too close to "see the forest for the trees".

 

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Reason and Intuition inform each other

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/9/1420632/95-CR-214-1%20Docket%20on%20JCKim%20and%20Chung%20Moo%20Doe.pdf

This is the docket obtained from US District Court of Illinois. The leaders of Oom Yung Doe were in fact convicted, so how can they be trusted to teach priciples of right action?

During this same time the school claims "In 1996, Chong Su Nim “Iron” Kim formally became Grandmaster “Iron” Kim of eight different martial arts disciplines" http://www.oomyungdoe.com/

How exactly do you become a grandmaster in martial arts. This would be an intelligent question, yes?

You must teach other master level students AND your reputation and achievement record as well as the reputation and achievement record of those students would be verifiable.

So find even one other organization in martial arts who recognizes John C Kim as a martial artist.

This would be interesting if it were possible. Good luck.

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Reason and Intuition inform each other

Just wanted to write something to current students of OYD who might
be looking on this board for information.

I don't want to tell people what to think. As rational adults, you
ought to be able to read the writing on the wall and see what is
going on. Your local instructor may be sincere, but the dynamics at
play here go much further past him. The strangeness, the mind games,
the manipulation, the ever changing programs, the hidden fees, the
demand for more and more money going away from you and into their
pockets--this all comes from Kim. He will flat out say to your fact
that this is not how he wants his system to be, yet all decisions
come from him. Once you see that, once you know that they will say
anything you need to hear, you know something profound.

So here's what I want to say to you: your training is for you.

Your training is for you.

Not for your instructor, not for the "higher belts", not for anyone
else, your training is for you.

Quite often, we were all asked our goals. When we said what those
were, in mid sentence we were told that that was wrong and our goal
should be to learn from Kim. That way our personal goals would be
accomplished in the process. Sure, it kinda had a point, but if you
look into the psychology of it, this was a slow breaking down of the
individual and an attempt at changing the mind of the student.
The "right" answer was "to learn from grandmaster". That is what you
had to say regardless of why you were there. Therefore, the only
thing acceptable was to do any and all actions that lead you to your
new goal.

Now I believe this is done is an even more subtle way. There are
MUCH less students in the schools now, and many schools have closed.
Understand this, OYD is desperate for money and will say and do
anything to keep you paying.

Multiple courses, tutoring fees, weapon fees, "herbal upgrades",
test fees, sae gaes, weekends, weeklongs, gifts to grandmaster,
investments in schools (by anyone now, regardless of rank,
apparently)...does this sound like a martial arts school?

Anyway, the thing is this: you joined this school for a reason.
Don't let them tell you your reasons. I was once told right to my
face to "forget about the students". And another time "let them
figure it out how to pay for all this". And another "always keep
them paying for something each month...this month they are testing,
next they take a sae gae, next they get on a higher course, next
month they are..." do you get it yet?

You know what will be your future in the school should you stay.
They will continue to ask more of your money, more of your time,
more of your being. They will do everything to make you WANT to do
this at first.

If you cannot afford your training, DO NOT GO INTO DEBT!!! It is not
worth the concequences on your life. If you cannot pay for
something, you cannot have it yet. Often we were told, "just put it
on a credit card!" Does that sound right to you? It is completely
wrong for any business to tell you how to pay for something.

Get your training, complete it on your terms. Complete your training
in your eyes, not in theirs, because they are not objective. They
are from the standpoint of making money off you and therefore, how
could they simply be for your goals? No, they are for their own
goals.

Do not listen when an instructor or "higher belt" tells you to pay
$1500 for a test. That number is obscene in the first place. Use
your mind to check if this makes sense. If you are not going to
continue to train past 1st degree, there is no point in giving them
this test fee. You have already paid for your course and have been
training. It is the training you came for and not some belt. Belts,
titles, ranks, positons are all worthless--it is they who will talk
you into believing that any of it means something when it comes to
martial arts.

Get your training and then move on if you do not wish to continue.
There's no need to give them a parting gift of $1500 for a test for
a rank which becomes useless. It is true that a test will help you
see yourself. Yet, you are your own teacher in this regard. Test
yourself. Compare your skills with others. Push your own limits.

They use a saying, "Finish what you start".

This is one of the reasons why OYD is extremely toxic, they use real
principles and legit teachings to justify their actions, and will
always take the high road, if you will, and turn the conversation on
you with those principles. They will take real principles which are
good to live by and put on the spot with them.

It is good to finish what you start. That is the problem. OYD will
use something like this and try to move you with it, so that you
will do what they want. This applies to anything, paying a test,
getting on a course, investing in a school, anything. They will keep
asking until you say yes. And they will try to use the principles
you yourself said you wanted to learn against you.

Anyway, this is all just food for thought. Your own mind is strong
enough to consider what you have seen and what is being asked of you
and if any of it is in YOUR best interests.